Chris Moneymaker Interview

Chris Moneymaker's unlikely run to win the 2003 World Series of Poker Main Event helped to spark the poker explosion in the US and worldwide. An accountant and recreational poker player before the tournament, Chris became an instant poker celebrity when the final hand was completed. In the years since, Moneymaker has been staying active at the felt and behind the scenes. In this exclusive interview, Moneymaker sits down with John Carlisle to tell us all about his life, his game, his business, and his future.

John: I've read where your grandmother was the one that taught you at bridge way back-in-the-day and grandpa was into blackjack and things like that�

Moneymaker: Yeah, uh, I learned bridge from my grandmother and it was actually my dad that taught me how to play blackjack. My grandmother needed a partner in bridge and when I was like five or six. She taught me how to play, and so I was her partner.

John: Six years old - were you a good player at that young of an age?

Moneymaker: Yeah, I was actually a real good player. Better than the old people� My wife's looking at me like, "What the hell?"

John: (laughs)

Moneymaker: But my wife's my toughest critic. So, I was a pretty good player. You know bridge is a pretty complicated game so I was pretty proud of the fact that I could pick it up quickly.

I can't do this interview with my wife sitting here - this is ridiculous!

John: (laughs)

Moneymaker: Um, and my dad taught me how to play blackjack when I was around 16. Uh, and I wasn't so good at that, though. I was pretty bad at blackjack. I was good at counting the cards - and, you know, doing everything well except for one thing� and that's probably the most important thing you can do when you play blackjack� that's money management.

John: I agree.

Moneymaker: I got my start playing blackjack at a casino one time on a cruise ship when I was 18. Uh, made a little bit of money and everything was going good and then I turned 21 and went to real casinos and it went downhill from there.

John: That usually happens �

Moneymaker: Uh, I was a pretty bad gambler all the way up until I discovered poker and, uh, I guess I was still a bad gambler except it was poker instead of other things. But I had at least a little bit of advantage in that I could win at poker sometimes.

John: Right, so kind of, kind of after you were playing blackjack you were betting on sports�any other games that got your interest?

Moneymaker: Oh yeah, you know, like Pai Gow, Caribbean Stud Poker, Baccarat. Um, you know I played everything except for roulette and craps, basically.

John: Where did you grow up and where were you playing at then?

Moneymaker: I grew up in Tunica and lived in Nashville. It's about a four-hour drive down to Tunica.

John: So you made that steady drive all the time and dropped your money down there to Tunica?

Moneymaker: Yeah, most of the steady money was dropped to a local bookie, but there was a steady drive of about once a month or once every other month to the casino.

John: And then it was, uh, you kind of credit the movie, "Rounders," like a lot of individuals do. That kind of sparked your interest in Texas Hold'em�

Moneymaker: Yeah. We played little home games - me and my buddies. But we always played like Acey-Deucie and "Change the Queen" and "Midnight Baseball" and you know, Lord knows what else� and that was the poker games we played and found out about Hold'em and my buddy went down to Tunica and discovered Hold'em.

And we started playing it and we didn't like it at first because the pots weren't big enough. Then we discovered you can play No-Limit Hold'em and things changed.

John: So, you were playing in like No-Limit cash games at Tunica to start off?

Moneymaker: Uh, they didn't have any No-Limit cash games at Tunica back then.

John: They were just low limit games?

Moneymaker: I'd play 5-10 limit and 10-20 limit and sometimes I would delve up into the 20-40 limit -- If I was really feeling good about myself!

John: And then fast forward when you win the WSOP main event. Was there any, like, defining hand or defining moment in �. that if you sit back and reflect on that kind of comes to your mind first as like THE MOMENT of that tournament?

Moneymaker: There are several of them� The two that stick out to me are the hand with Johnny Chan and the one with Dutch Boyd.

John: And the Dutch Boyd hand of course when you called his bluff with your little tiny pocket pair of 3's was it?

Moneymaker: Yeah.

John: That was one hell of a gutsy call, especially with cards still to come on the Turn and River. And the Johnny Chan hand was what?

Moneymaker: I had an ace high-flush draw with an ace on the board and he had a king high-flush draw with nothing and I put him out. It was just the fact that I put out the guy from "Rounders," my mentor and my idol. You know, the guy that I thought was the scariest player in the world.

John: So kind of psychologically, that was your breakthrough and your confidence finder?

Moneymaker: Exactly.

John: Well did you find it tough to handle the instant celebrity and the money that came along with winning the big one?

Moneymaker: Oh of course, yeah. That was probably the toughest part. I went from being a guy sitting on the computer and playing with a select group of friends to all of a sudden everybody knows me and going on talk shows and everything else. It was definitely the toughest adjustment - that was the toughest part, the adjustment.

John: When was it that you were like, "Oh my gosh, I'm a celebrity"? When did that kind of sink in and finally hit you?

Moneymaker: It probably didn't hit me until the next February. And when I was at the Bay 101 doing a Shooting Stars event and signing all the autographs out there. Because you know it didn't start airing on TV until like August, September.

John: Right . . .

Moneymaker: And then, uh, you know I didn't do a whole lot of traveling � You know the poker boom hadn't really taken off and there weren't a whole lot of poker opportunities back then. It wasn't really until February that the opportunities really started to pop up and, you know, you get out and do things.

John: So after that, I mean after that victory, what would you say is the poker highlight or whatever you want to call it? What else are you most proud of at the felt?

Moneymaker: Just the fact that I've improved my game and all facets of the game. And I've learned a lot of different games and I can play all the games well�

John: Um hmmm.

Moneymaker: Uh, you know I've been working really hard on my cash game and, you know, I routinely get on and make money online in cash games - and that's probably what I'm most proud of.

John: Right� So tell us about like where you are now in your life in general. You're still living in Tennessee and, tell us, what's a typical Chris Moneymaker day now?

Moneymaker: A typical Chris Moneymaker day? . . . Let's see, we get up at 7 o'clock in the morning - um, 7:30, sorry. Um, we hang out, we eat breakfast. Um, hang out during the morning and watch some TV. Play with our daughter, um, then my daughter takes a nap. I jump online and play online poker for about 30 minutes. My daughter will wake up, I'll cook lunch, we all have lunch� Uh, we play some more, my daughter takes afternoon nap. I play more online poker for about another hour-and-a-half. My daughter wakes up again, we go out and run errands and whatever chores we have to do - clean the house, whatever you know strikes our day� Uh, and then we come back for dinner, I cook dinner and we have dinner as a family. We watch a little TV, uh, my wife takes my daughter up to bed. Um, I play poker for another hour or so; she comes back down; we hang out and then we all go to bed. Or, on occasion, I stay up and play late at night. But that's probably two or three nights a week I stay up late at night. Otherwise, we all go to bed.

John: So a typical Moneymaker man day is a typical family man day? Family first and play a little poker when you get a chance to?

Moneymaker: I play poker when she's taking naps and that's about it . . . I just, you know, I travel a whole lot so when I'm home, I try to spend as much time as I can with her.

John: Right. And when you say you play online, you play at PokerStars, and some casual fans don't realize they can just log on and play against you, right?

Moneymaker: This is true.

John: And, you haven't changed your screen name, so if somebody could find you, where would they find you at Poker Stars?

Moneymaker: That would be Money800 at Poker Stars.

John: Now do you find that there are a lot of people online that change their game because they're gunning for the World Champ, the famous Chris Moneymaker? Do they play harder against you or do they play softer against you? What do you think your perception is of that?

Moneymaker: Um, people play me a lot worse. You know, they really wanna take a shot . . . You know, I've had people come and play me at Omaha High-Low which is probably my best game now.

John: Omaha 8? Really your best game now?

Moneymaker: Yeah, it's, uh, really a strong game of mine. And they'll come play me 75 to 150 and have no idea what they're doing. But they just wanna play against me and they think . . .

You know I've had a guy that plays every day online, uh, say he saw me sitting there - this is about a year ago - saw me sitting there and that I'd be an easy target. And, you know, he does it every day for a living. Let's just say he doesn't look for me any more!

John: (Laughs) Now, what propelled you to take up some other games and things? You know, was there some kind of internal drive in you to expand out of Hold'em a little bit or what was it that . . .

Moneymaker: Two things. It was, uh, I realized there was other games other than Hold'em. If you play in the World Series you gotta play, you don't have to play - but there's Omaha games, Stud games, HORSE events�

I mean, I like to be able to play in all the events and not just be limited to Hold'em. And two, the simple matter of boredom. I mean you play the same game every day and it gets old. I mean I got into a rut where, you know, yeah I was making money, but I wasn't having fun doing it. So, you know, it's amazing to sit down and play Stud or Omaha - which I don't like playing Stud � I mean I've played in five Stud Hi/Lo tournaments and I've cashed and made my own table in two and cashed in three of them, so I'm good in that game. But I like Omaha Hi/Lo a lot better than I like Omaha� It's just amazing how a few more cards can change the games. You know any time the whole game changes it is nice.

John: You mention about how sometimes it becomes a grind rather than being fun. And a lot of amateurs ask of pros a lot, is poker like a business where it becomes like a job for you after awhile?

Moneymaker: I mean, it's definitely a grind. Um, you know, it's still fun for me. I do take breaks every day that I don't play. Um, you know, if I'm at home, I usually only playing maybe two hours a day, which isn't really a whole lot. I mean even though I do play most days, uh, you know it's only a couple hours here and there . . . and, uh, so it doesn't get too bad . . .

Um, I usually take at least a day or so and go play 1-2 No Limit or 2-5 No-Limit and just play like a complete maniac and play crazy and have a good time and drink and do whatever I wanna do - and that's sorta how I blow my steam off.

I'll get online and play five-dollar heads-up matches - you know, just to make it fun again and sorta just goof off instead of taking it all so seriously.

John: One of the things that probably takes up some of your time is an endeavor called Moneymaker Gaming. Why don't you explain to us what that is and what you guys do?

Moneymaker: Moneymaker Gaming is a company we started in 2005. We, uh, saw that there was a big void in the chip market and high-end chips for the home games and high-end poker tables and poker accessories.

And we tried to develop an idea where we could produce very good high-end product at a reasonable price. And then we also went out and partnered with some very cool partners, uh, to produce these chips . . . and to use their licenses to make those chips even cooler. So we went out and partnered with people like Playboy, NASCAR drivers, WWE and West Coast Choppers.

John: Wow, great partners.

Moneymaker: So we started that, then we started our slot machine company, you know, this year. And we've been in slot machines in casinos as of beginning of this year. It's been pretty busy.

John: It's not just your name as a forefront and a seller . . . You do stay active in the business day to day?

Moneymaker: Yes, I'm active in the business. We're based out of L.A., so I'm not in day-to-day operations, but we have a weekly meeting that I take part in. And, you know, I have final say on all product and, uh, ideas, and things of that nature.

I've got a really good staff that work with me and really good partners that work with the company, uh, and they do a fantastic job. So that makes my life a lot easier.

Um, you know, we're working on a poker camp with Playboy that we'll be doing in January. And, you know, I haven't lifted a finger to do anything having to do with that poker camp. They've taken it and ran with it.

John: Well, let's talk about that poker camp� It seems like a heck of an idea - you're gonna mix professional poker players giving instruction with Playboy bunnies and a party at the Playboy mansion. It seems like a heck of a great concept. What can somebody coming to that camp expect to get out of it and what can they expect to see for their time and their money?

Moneymaker: Well when you come to the camp you're gonna learn from . . . we've got a list of . . . we're still getting the pros together, but we're gonna have a list of the top pros in the business.

So you're gonna learn the strengths of every pro. We're gonna have breakout sessions and you're gonna get two days of world-class instruction. So your poker game is going to improve.

I mean, you know I've never read a book or you know, the only thing I've done to improve my game is play. And then I got the opportunity to sit down with these guys - Joe Hachem, Greg Raymer - and some of the other great players and just talk to them. Just sit down and talking to these people, it's amazing how much you learn.

So we're gonna have that intimate, you know, close access to professionals where you can sit down and learn in a good environment. And, uh, so you're gonna have two days of instruction and then we're gonna have fun tournaments every night and a big tournament where you can win, um, there's $100,000 in cash and prizes that we're giving away.

Um, so for the poker side of it, you're getting good instruction, you're having fun playing great poker and having fun playing in a big tournament that's gonna have a nice prize pool.

And then, the other benefit is you're gonna have two parties. One at the Morongo with the Playboy bunnies and then, two, the last night, we're all jumping on buses that have fully-stocked bars and taking them down to the Playboy mansion. And there will be over 50 topless Playmates running around and having a good time!

John: (Laughs). Now that is truly a poker camp! That certainly out-does a lot of the ones out on the market right now. Uh, you're gonna have instruction from people like, well, you Chris Moneymaker, you've got Layne Flack already signed, uh, Jim Worth, the "Crazy Canuck," and it sounds like you're gonna have some others.

Plus, a bunch of some of the most gorgeous babes in literally the world. So that's certainly going to be something that's going to be tough to pass up. And that's I guess . . .

Moneymaker: And you know, I would pay 5-grand just to go to the party.

John: (Laughs)

Moneymaker: Plus we'll have the best instruction. But, I mean it's really the best of both worlds. I've heard a lot of people say that they'll come to the camp just for the party.

John: Right . . .

Moneymaker: You know, I don't blame 'em. I mean, you know, other people you know are just pumped up about the camp all around - from the instruction to the tournament to of course the money.

John: That's the best of both worlds. You get to rub elbows with some of the best poker players in the world and, like you say, pick their brains a little bit. And get some, not only instruction, but just some time to see their thought processes and what goes behind them as a pro.

Moneymaker: Yeah, a lot of camps can be boring and they lecture to you and, you know, you sit in a big room and they get up there and speak.

You know we're gonna be more about - the guys we're getting are gonna be fun guys . . . People you wanna hang out and have drinks with. And they're gonna interact a lot more.

It's gonna be a lot more interaction, a lot more of learning on the fly and learning, you know, really what makes a good poker player. Not what you would read . . . Not someone who writes a book and they go up and read it to you.

John: Uh huh . . .

Moneymaker: You know, a little bit more interaction and a little bit more socializing.

John: Sounds great. Now in your time, are you still a fan of poker? Are you watching poker on TV, uh, do you log on to other Web sites and see what's going on? For instance, when the World Series event was winding down, were you keeping on top of that and seeing what was going down?

Moneymaker: Yeah. I watched CardPlayer during the main event. Following the main event (once I busted), I continued to follow it. As far as any of the other tournaments go, I don't follow any of those during the year.

I don't watch anything on TV as far as poker goes. Um, I couldn't tell you who won a tournament outside the main event. You know I know Jeff Madsen did well. Outside of that, I probably couldn't tell you. But, uh, you know I don't really follow it that much.

John: With all your business and your family it's tough to fit those other things in.

Moneymaker: Yeah, you know� and you know, I'm in that business so I should probably know it a little bit better than I do, but when you're sittin at the table � you know, I don't really care how every other person does. I can only battle against the people I can see and the people I can play against, so that's all I really worry about.

John: Which players would you say are some of your most respected or who you idolize? You've already mentioned Johnny Chan . . . Is there some of the other players out there that you really do look up to?

Moneymaker: Joe Hachem and Greg Raymer both. I mean, they both have similar backgrounds to what I do.

They both balance life - their personal life and poker life - very well and, uh, you know, I really appreciate and respect what they do.

John: And you guys have all played together and spent a lot of time together and actually played together, right? Because the three of you are all affiliated with PokerStars.

Moneymaker: Yeah. We all went over to Europe and get to hang out and we do quite a few things with Poker Starts that make it so we get to hang out.

John: So, tell us about your 2006 World Series. You know you did well in the beginning of the first day of the main event. Uh, but then didn't make it out . . . and, how about some of the other tournaments and things. What did you enter and how did it go?

Moneymaker: Well, initially I was planning on entering just about every event. That was my initial plan going out there. Uh, my daughter got sick and had diarrhea and then my grandfather passed away in the middle, so I went from playing upwards of 17 to 18 events to playing five events.

And, uh, you know those five events I spent going back and forth between Nashville and Las Vegas. So, I played in three 15-hundred dollar events, which are - actually, I played in six events: Three 15-hundred dollar events, which are crap shoots.

John: Mmm hmmm�

Moneymaker: A Limit Shoot-Out event. Uh, the 10-thousand Pot Limit Omaha event and then the main event. Uh, I cashed in the Limit Shoot-Out - and that was the only one I cashed in. I made it to the dinner break or so in each of the other ones.

John: Were you surprised that the number of entrants continues to grow? A lot of people thought maybe 2004 might really be the apex after the "Chris Moneymaker effect" hit in 2003 and then a lot of people were predicting it might slide back down. But we saw eighty-four-hundred-plus in the main event this year.

Moneymaker: Naa, I knew we'd have that many this year. I knew we'd have a ton this year. Now next year, I expect it to top off. I mean you might have about the same number next year, but it will probably top off here.

Doyle did an interview the other day and he thinks it can go up to 50-thousand people, which is just berserk. But I think it's probably gonna top off around this number here. I expected it to jump up rather large again - but I think it'll hold steady here a couple years and then drop back down to you'll probably see it about four thousand people in it from now on. Unless they raise the buy-in of course.

John: Yeah. A lot of pros are advocating for them to raise the buy-in to try and keep the numbers down. Um, you come from a different place because you're not a hardened pro that's been playing for 30 years like some of the others that say that. What's your thought? Do you think that the entry should be raised above 10-thousand in the field?

Moneymaker: I don't think many of the pros are pushing for it too much. I mean they want a different event - which they got in HORSE . . .

John: Right - the 50-thousand buy-in . . .

Moneymaker: Yeah, they're gonna have some bigger buy-ins that will limit fields, but I think as far as the main event goes, I mean that tournament needs to stay 10-thousand dollar buy-in for the simple fact that it gets so many people that - I mean, yeah, it's a long, grueling, tough tournament. But there's a lot of inexperienced players in it and if you can accumulate some chips and don't take bad beats, then you have a real shot to do something.

John: Right.

Moneymaker: I mean, if you can do that, you know the payoff is phenomenal. You know, I say leave it where it is and let as many people come as they want. Uh, let the bank roll keep building.

John: Absolutely. And then the payoff just continues to build. Your winning paycheck . . . Uh, there were several people that bested that number out at the final table this year. It was amazing.

Moneymaker: If you were in the final spots, you made millions of dollars. I mean, I think you made $395,000 for like 50th place. That's a tournament win on a WPT - that's phenomenal. That's why you shouldn't change it.

John: Absolutely. So if, uh, if you were to talk to this year's winner, Jamie Gold, he won 12-million dollars. Would you have any advice for him professionally, poker-wise or personally? What would you tell him?

Moneymaker: I met Jamie Gold about a year and a half ago and we're actually doing a little business together - um, or we've talked about it - and, uh . . .

John: Was he was talking to you as an agent?

Moneymaker: No, as a - we were talking about doing the poker camp. And instruction ideas with Johnny Chan and, uh, he was involved in that discussion. And, you know, the advive I'll give him is 'Basically don't go around beatin' the world. You know, you're a good player. I mean, sit back and conserve your money and don't go try and beat the big game. You know, let the endorsements come and enjoy it.'

John: Right. Even a $12 million paycheck at Bellagio's big game might be above your means and that could be drained pretty quickly.

Moneymaker: Yeah. If he stepped into that big game in Bellagio, he could be broke in a week or a month. I mean, depending how he played it . . .

John: Mmm hmmm. And a lot of people forget that he certainly doesn't get a check for $12 million. I'm sure that you know Uncle Sam takes a huge chunk of that before it even makes it into your pocket.

Moneymaker: That is incorrect. No, you get the whole chunk and then you pay Uncle Sam in the end.

John: Oh.

Moneymaker: So I mean, he gets the whole thing, but he does owe Uncle Sam. But Uncle Sam doesn't call until April 15th the next year.

John: And then you have to pony up a very big check.

Moneymaker: Yeah, it's a painful one.

John: Especially when you're used to paying taxes on a quote/unquote normal salary - of an accountant or a chiropractor or . .

Moneymaker: It's a lot tougher now that I'm a professional poker player. I have to write them a check every year and, you know, those checks get steep.

John: I can imagine.

Moneymaker: It's a good problem to have though, I guess.

John: I suppose so . . . that's true. I'd like to have it myself to let you know. I think, hope and expect that there's probably gonna be a lot of excitement about the Playboy camp especially and I wish you luck with that.

Is there any other endeavors that we can look for for Chris Moneymaker or Moneymaker Gaming over the next couple of months?

Moneymaker: Well we're working real hard on the slot machines right now. I've, you know, last year was so brutal with travel and stuff. I told my wife that we're gonna slow down a little bit. And just do sorta the family thing. So I'm not gonna be doing too much business for the next year or so.

John: I understand that.

Moneymaker: I'm gonna try and just slow down and you know, I might play a few more tournaments in there - and I'd like to get back to playing some tournaments. But, you know, I don't play too many and I'd like to jump in a few more of those. And if I do those, I can't do anything else.

John: It's always a balancing act.

Moneymaker: Yeah. It's a balancing game and it's not the easiest thing in the world to do. I definitely don't wanna go back to full-time playing again. But things keep popping up here and there, so I'll take advantage of them as they come.

John: Absolutely. Do you think that there's an end to the ride in sight for poker in general?

Moneymaker: No, I don't think so. Uh, there's so many young kids that play and so many people that play. I mean the TV aspect of it might die out, but as far as the number of people that play . . . I mean there are eighty-million people that play in the United States.

And, I mean, the only thing that could hurt poker a little bit is the legislation passed to thwart online poker. It would be tough to force, but if it does get forced, it will slow down entrance to the main event, and it'll slow down online players, but that will just make a rash of home games and, you know, there will be people playing all over the place.

John: You know we're looking forward to the camp and all the future stuff going on and hopefully we'll see you on more of the final tables.

Moneymaker: Yeah, I'll look forward to that . .

John: Anything else we can look for from Chris Moneymaker?

Moneymaker: They're running, uh, the largest weekly free roll on Poker Stars right now. And it's a free roll, so it's free to get in. And, uh, they're giving away over 2 � million dollars in cash and prizes.

And, uh, they're taking the top 27 players, uh, down to the Bahamas to compete um, for the cash prizes. Uh, they're giving away an Aston Martin DB9, um . . .

You know, it's a fantastic prize package and the fact that it's free is just phenomenal. The catch is, you have to get through eight-thousand people the first time; at about four-thousand the second time; and about a couple-hundred the third time. But when you have unlimited cracks at it, it's not a bad deal.

John: And like you said, it's absolutely free to enter. So anybody can give it a shot and give it a shot a couple of times �

Moneymaker: The good thing is, you know, 6,000 of those people don't have any idea what they're doing. If you can get some chips rolling, the Top 50 advance to round two. There the players are a bit better. And if you get to round three, the players are gonna be even better. But you know, still they're not gonna be fantastic. And you know, it's a HUGE prize pool.

John: Absolutely. All right. Well we'll look for you at the Moneymaker Million then, too.

John: Get a shot at that. Do you think that you have a better game online than live action?

Moneymaker: Uh, I'm better live. I have the ability to read people so I'm better live. Also, I'm better no-limit live than with it no-limit online.

John: Hey, man, thank you so much for your time. It's great to hear from you.

Moneymaker: Thank you very much, John.

John is a National Certified Counselor (NCC). He has a Master of Arts degree in Counseling from West Virginia University, and a Bachelor's degree in Psychology with a minor in Sociology from Lock Haven University. You can find out more about the psychology of poker from "the Poker Counselor" at carlisle14@hotmail.com.

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